Sunday, May 23, 2004
FUCK YOU is not an a good rebuttal
The following is an AIM transcript between myself and a fellow classmate of last semester's killer class, EE 2193. Also known as VLSI 2. Basically, the course is poorly organized, and the faculty member who teaches it believes strongly in "self-learning". While I agree in principal, there is a lot of tribal knowledge in ASIC design, stuff that you're not going to learn by textbooks, and thus, not in school, unless someone imparts that wisdom to you. You can only learn by doing; doing it the right way by someone or an organization that's walked the path before. The Arch. group was all undergrads, a mix of EEs and CoEs. They had little to no design experience. The EEs had never even gotten their hands dirty with a Hardware Description Language (HDL) and didn't know what was possible or impossible. I didn't really know myself. until I started digging into the technology libraries our ASIC Component Vendor gave us.
Anyway, I digress. The Arch. group came up with something that was infeasible, and because of professor disinterest, the spec doc was not properly review and serious design flaws were not caught. I, and the rest of my group were left with implementing something nearly impossible in the timeline we had. It required 5 virtual crossbars for 2 synchronous transfers. The Router Team is also the only team that has to deal with parameters, something even Khusid didn't understand to well because their implementation is vendor specific -- they're not really well defined in the Verilog-95 standard. So we didn't know the tricks. 5 highly complicated and expensive engineering packages, through commandline interface, is quite a learning curve in itself.
Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is the class was pretty much doomed to failure, which in itself doesn't neutralize its learning experience, it just makes it hellish for those going through it. It became political; groups angry at each other for their lack of progress. Fingers started being pointed, a lot at our group because we had the hardest task, and the team suited least for it. Dan Butor was a no show, Stafford would only do testing, and Nick didn't really know Verilog. Nick did a lot of testing and later picked up the tools when I had to work on E-Week, but for a while it rested solely on Ben Herr and myself to make headway.
Our group didn't feel the need to be aggressive in the political game of pointing fingers of who's a fuck up and who's not co-operating. We were making progress as a group, and were confident that our best effort would be still be usable.
That goes to show you how naive we were really were. So we blasted the arch. group in our final report, because one of the members told us they planned to leave the blame squarely on our shoulders. We were pissed at that, because we spent the whole semester working, while they just had to convince the professor they were really smart kids, and they were waiting on the other teams, so they couldn't do anything but sit around and B.S.
I also vented on my former slasdot.org journal before I got a blog. The link is right here. One of the arch team members who I considered a friend was upset that I had basically concluded ahead of time that no matter what level of effort I exerted for this class, the end result would be the same. I could give them the resurrected Jesus of routers and they would still fuck it up. Incompetence was an all around high, and as the managers of the class, they were certainly of the pointy haired subspecies. He was quite upset. I found his AIM conversation funny, so I'm posting it.
Its right here in its entirely. Notice I don't seem to get upset. I just point out observations and facts. Then I mention to him that its actually OVER and DONE WITH. Alas, you can all see for yourself.
CeZRaM (9:52:13 PM): whats your deal??
red robot 50 50 (9:52:47 PM): what?
CeZRaM (9:53:51 PM): just cuz im in the arch group, you gonna talk shit
red robot 50 50 (9:54:36 PM): to what shit are you referring to?
CeZRaM (9:55:10 PM): your little slashdot post
red robot 50 50 (9:55:34 PM): oh, that post
red robot 50 50 (9:56:06 PM): well d00d, i'm entitled to my opinion, and my opinion is that the arch team was unqualified and incompetant
red robot 50 50 (9:56:15 PM): its not your fault
red robot 50 50 (9:56:23 PM): no other school put any undergrads in the arch group
CeZRaM (9:56:26 PM): fuck you
CeZRaM (9:56:49 PM): every other school pulled ir off
red robot 50 50 (9:57:05 PM): yeah, because its a grad class at every other school
CeZRaM (9:57:14 PM): no it isn't
red robot 50 50 (9:57:19 PM): yes, it is
CeZRaM (9:57:22 PM): no
red robot
50 50 (9:57:28 PM): i spent time bullshitting with Khusid
red robot 50 50 (9:57:45 PM): the mix of grad students is proportionally higher in both PSU and CMU
red robot 50 50 (9:58:04 PM): not to mention there's pre-requisites in both Verilog design
CeZRaM (9:58:13 PM): be equal
red robot 50 50 (9:58:16 PM): and VLSI/ASIC design theory
red robot 50 50 (9:59:08 PM): be equal? we got further than any pitt router team. I know this, because I WORK with the router team lead for the year ahead of us
red robot 50 50 (9:59:20 PM): He's one of Brady's buddies. And I car pool with him
red robot 50 50 (9:59:26 PM): they didn't even get it to synth
CeZRaM (9:59:50 PM): how was your grade, that is the true measure?
red robot 50 50 (9:59:51 PM): you guys got your As
red robot 50 50 (9:59:57 PM): B+
red robot 50 50 (10:00:02 PM): you looked better
red robot 50 50 (10:00:05 PM): good for you
CeZRaM (1:00:18 PM): HOLY FUCK
red robot 50 50 (10:00:19 PM): Kourtev was so involved, i'm sure he could make an honest determination
red robot 50 50 (10:00:35 PM): or maybe he just read everyone's final papers and doled out whatever
red robot 50 50 (10:00:38 PM): what do i know
CeZRaM (10:00:51 PM): HE GAVE YOU LAZY FUCK'S A B+
red robot 50 50 (10:00:59 PM): yeah, we worked a lot harder then you did
red robot 50 50 (10:01:09 PM): especially since what we had was infeasible
red robot 50 50 (10:01:31 PM): wonder who pulled that design out of their brillant but inexperienced with HDLs ass?
red robot 50 50 (10:01:43 PM): maybe an EE with no prep for the course on the arch group?
red robot 50 50 (10:01:57 PM): but at least y'all sounded smart and cocky for the powerpoints
red robot 50 50 (10:02:07 PM): that's pretty much all i think you guys did that whole semester
red robot 50 50 (10:02:25 PM): lord knows any of your floorplanning was an exercise in futility
CeZRaM (10:02:43 PM): FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!
red robot 50 50 (10:02:45 PM): and at PSU and CMU, that's what the class is supposed to be about for the Arch. group.
red robot 50 50 (10:03:40 PM): good rebuttal
red robot 50 50 (10:03:47 PM): semester's over, so chill the fuck out
red robot 50 50 (10:03:51 PM): its over and done with
red robot 50 50 (10:04:12 PM): hope your ass got a jobn
red robot 50 50 (10:04:14 PM): job
Ok, re-reading it, I do get a little hostile. But that's because I still can't believe they think their As aren't jokes. They didn't do anything for the whole semester except make powerpoints. Our group worked 48 hours straight on multiple occasions. All our other classwork suffered. We were always tired. I found some of Peter Crist's nicotine patches and started putting them on for the jolt of a pack-and-half of cigarettes per day they gave. They didn't do anything, they didn't know anything. The professor just thought they were better dressed. They should be thanking us for taking so long, since it gave them an even longer vacation. Their design was infeasible. It was undoable as making Up into down. If they want to feel like they were brillant engineers, good for them. Self-esteem and confidence are important for fitting in. I stand by my remarks, because if an ASIC design firm looked over what they did in a semester, and what our group did in a semester, and hire the better group, I'd walk away with a job. I'm not so sure about their pompous asses.
Anyway, I digress. The Arch. group came up with something that was infeasible, and because of professor disinterest, the spec doc was not properly review and serious design flaws were not caught. I, and the rest of my group were left with implementing something nearly impossible in the timeline we had. It required 5 virtual crossbars for 2 synchronous transfers. The Router Team is also the only team that has to deal with parameters, something even Khusid didn't understand to well because their implementation is vendor specific -- they're not really well defined in the Verilog-95 standard. So we didn't know the tricks. 5 highly complicated and expensive engineering packages, through commandline interface, is quite a learning curve in itself.
Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is the class was pretty much doomed to failure, which in itself doesn't neutralize its learning experience, it just makes it hellish for those going through it. It became political; groups angry at each other for their lack of progress. Fingers started being pointed, a lot at our group because we had the hardest task, and the team suited least for it. Dan Butor was a no show, Stafford would only do testing, and Nick didn't really know Verilog. Nick did a lot of testing and later picked up the tools when I had to work on E-Week, but for a while it rested solely on Ben Herr and myself to make headway.
Our group didn't feel the need to be aggressive in the political game of pointing fingers of who's a fuck up and who's not co-operating. We were making progress as a group, and were confident that our best effort would be still be usable.
That goes to show you how naive we were really were. So we blasted the arch. group in our final report, because one of the members told us they planned to leave the blame squarely on our shoulders. We were pissed at that, because we spent the whole semester working, while they just had to convince the professor they were really smart kids, and they were waiting on the other teams, so they couldn't do anything but sit around and B.S.
I also vented on my former slasdot.org journal before I got a blog. The link is right here. One of the arch team members who I considered a friend was upset that I had basically concluded ahead of time that no matter what level of effort I exerted for this class, the end result would be the same. I could give them the resurrected Jesus of routers and they would still fuck it up. Incompetence was an all around high, and as the managers of the class, they were certainly of the pointy haired subspecies. He was quite upset. I found his AIM conversation funny, so I'm posting it.
Its right here in its entirely. Notice I don't seem to get upset. I just point out observations and facts. Then I mention to him that its actually OVER and DONE WITH. Alas, you can all see for yourself.
CeZRaM (9:52:13 PM): whats your deal??
red robot 50 50 (9:52:47 PM): what?
CeZRaM (9:53:51 PM): just cuz im in the arch group, you gonna talk shit
red robot 50 50 (9:54:36 PM): to what shit are you referring to?
CeZRaM (9:55:10 PM): your little slashdot post
red robot 50 50 (9:55:34 PM): oh, that post
red robot 50 50 (9:56:06 PM): well d00d, i'm entitled to my opinion, and my opinion is that the arch team was unqualified and incompetant
red robot 50 50 (9:56:15 PM): its not your fault
red robot 50 50 (9:56:23 PM): no other school put any undergrads in the arch group
CeZRaM (9:56:26 PM): fuck you
CeZRaM (9:56:49 PM): every other school pulled ir off
red robot 50 50 (9:57:05 PM): yeah, because its a grad class at every other school
CeZRaM (9:57:14 PM): no it isn't
red robot 50 50 (9:57:19 PM): yes, it is
CeZRaM (9:57:22 PM): no
red robot
50 50 (9:57:28 PM): i spent time bullshitting with Khusid
red robot 50 50 (9:57:45 PM): the mix of grad students is proportionally higher in both PSU and CMU
red robot 50 50 (9:58:04 PM): not to mention there's pre-requisites in both Verilog design
CeZRaM (9:58:13 PM): be equal
red robot 50 50 (9:58:16 PM): and VLSI/ASIC design theory
red robot 50 50 (9:59:08 PM): be equal? we got further than any pitt router team. I know this, because I WORK with the router team lead for the year ahead of us
red robot 50 50 (9:59:20 PM): He's one of Brady's buddies. And I car pool with him
red robot 50 50 (9:59:26 PM): they didn't even get it to synth
CeZRaM (9:59:50 PM): how was your grade, that is the true measure?
red robot 50 50 (9:59:51 PM): you guys got your As
red robot 50 50 (9:59:57 PM): B+
red robot 50 50 (10:00:02 PM): you looked better
red robot 50 50 (10:00:05 PM): good for you
CeZRaM (1:00:18 PM): HOLY FUCK
red robot 50 50 (10:00:19 PM): Kourtev was so involved, i'm sure he could make an honest determination
red robot 50 50 (10:00:35 PM): or maybe he just read everyone's final papers and doled out whatever
red robot 50 50 (10:00:38 PM): what do i know
CeZRaM (10:00:51 PM): HE GAVE YOU LAZY FUCK'S A B+
red robot 50 50 (10:00:59 PM): yeah, we worked a lot harder then you did
red robot 50 50 (10:01:09 PM): especially since what we had was infeasible
red robot 50 50 (10:01:31 PM): wonder who pulled that design out of their brillant but inexperienced with HDLs ass?
red robot 50 50 (10:01:43 PM): maybe an EE with no prep for the course on the arch group?
red robot 50 50 (10:01:57 PM): but at least y'all sounded smart and cocky for the powerpoints
red robot 50 50 (10:02:07 PM): that's pretty much all i think you guys did that whole semester
red robot 50 50 (10:02:25 PM): lord knows any of your floorplanning was an exercise in futility
CeZRaM (10:02:43 PM): FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!
red robot 50 50 (10:02:45 PM): and at PSU and CMU, that's what the class is supposed to be about for the Arch. group.
red robot 50 50 (10:03:40 PM): good rebuttal
red robot 50 50 (10:03:47 PM): semester's over, so chill the fuck out
red robot 50 50 (10:03:51 PM): its over and done with
red robot 50 50 (10:04:12 PM): hope your ass got a jobn
red robot 50 50 (10:04:14 PM): job
Ok, re-reading it, I do get a little hostile. But that's because I still can't believe they think their As aren't jokes. They didn't do anything for the whole semester except make powerpoints. Our group worked 48 hours straight on multiple occasions. All our other classwork suffered. We were always tired. I found some of Peter Crist's nicotine patches and started putting them on for the jolt of a pack-and-half of cigarettes per day they gave. They didn't do anything, they didn't know anything. The professor just thought they were better dressed. They should be thanking us for taking so long, since it gave them an even longer vacation. Their design was infeasible. It was undoable as making Up into down. If they want to feel like they were brillant engineers, good for them. Self-esteem and confidence are important for fitting in. I stand by my remarks, because if an ASIC design firm looked over what they did in a semester, and what our group did in a semester, and hire the better group, I'd walk away with a job. I'm not so sure about their pompous asses.
